< link rel="DCTERMS.isreplacedby" href="http://davejustus.com/" >

Monday, May 23, 2005

Taboo Test Discussion

I posted my results from the Taboo Test the other day, and I indicated in the comments to that post that I would like to explore the scenarios in detail and explain my answers and the reasons I gave them. I would suggest that if you are interesting in taking this test, you do so now before you read the posts below as they may spoil the expirience. As always, any comments on these answers would be welcome. Moral Intuitions These first questions are to establish a baseline.

1. A small boy is playing happily on a swing in a local playground when an older girl pushes him off and hurts him for no other reason than that she wants to play on the swing. Are her actions morally wrong?
Most people would agree that this is wrong, hurting another to get what you want is considered bad by most everyone.
Is it possible that an action is morally wrong solely for the reason that it harms the person undertaking the action? For example, might it be morally wrong to smoke just because it harms the smoker and for no other reason?
I answered yes on this as well, more on my thinking on this in a moment.
Is it possible something might be morally wrong for no other reason than that God determines that it is wrong? For example, imagine that God has declared that drinking water is wrong, and when she is asked why she replies honestly "for no other reason than that I say it is."
I don't subscribe to the theological arguement that "God is Good" represents a symetric property of equality. I ascribe to the idea that Goodness is a seperate attribute that God possesses. Therefore, I answered no on this statement. However, that does not necessarily mean that an omniscient being could understand moral implications better, and might decline to explain it's reasoning.
Can an individual action be morally wrong if it is entirely private and no-one, not even the person doing the act, is harmed by it at all?
This statement is really the meat of this survey. I answered yes here. Not doing harm is, in my mind anyway, the beginning point, not the ending of morality. This would also relate to the idea of an action being immoral even if it harms only oneself. Perhaps I have a higher standard of morality, but the ultimate morality to me is choosing the best out of all possible choices. This is of course an unobtainable standard, so no one is perfectly moral (leaving aside possible divine beings anyway.) As a comfort to us fallible humans though, it is equally impossible to be perfectly immoral. No one can always make the worst choice either.
Do you think that morality comes from God or some other source outside of nature, society and human judgement?
I answered no here, as should be unsurprising given my previous explanations. If morality is defined as the best possible choice, than it is a thing into and of itself, so it would arrise from nature. Now, as to the question which is somewhat implied, but not asked, of how knowledge of which choice is best, can be gained I remain uncertain. Human society gives us some good guidlines, but it falls down often as well. Reason can often provide useful answers, but certainly our knowedge and capabilities to think are imperfect and can never yeild perfect morality. As I have mentioned in other post, many people I admire seem to get excellent mileage on the question from communion with the divine, so that is something I do not mock, although I remain quite aware of the extreme immorality that has been practiced in the name of God, or Gods, historically. For myself, I try to use reason combined with a respect for evolved societal norms to determine morality. Cognizant of the limitations of my own reason, I am hesitant to judge what society has evolved as norms to be immoral without long thought and a strong degree of certainty.

6 Comments:

Blogger The probligo said...

Dave, a question if I may. Take the first scenario you pose -

"1. A small boy is playing happily on a swing in a local playground when an older girl pushes him off and hurts him for no other reason than that she wants to play on the swing. Are her actions morally wrong?"

Now change that so the boy is not hurt when the older person removes him from the swing. The rationale is still the same, there is just no physical injury involved.

"1. A small boy is playing happily on a swing in a local playground when an older girl lifts him off and places him in a safe place for no other reason than that she wants to play on the swing. Are her actions morally wrong?"

Does that in any way change your answer to that first question?

5/23/2005 04:18:00 PM  
Blogger Dave Justus said...

The initial questions are meant to create a baseline, that is why they are much more straight forward than the scenarios which follow.

Given the situation you describe, I think the girls actions are wrong in that scenario as well.

5/24/2005 07:54:00 AM  
Blogger Katinula said...

Great test, great link. I took it as well. I'll be posting on my results soon.
That was a really neat exercise.

5/24/2005 01:22:00 PM  
Blogger The probligo said...

Dave, this whole "baseline" thing means very little to me.

Allow me to illustrate -

Some 20 years back, law was introduced in this country providing for the public voting of referenda. The process is effectively a petition to the government stating the question to be asked in the referendum and accompanied by (I think) signatures of 50,000 voters.

The last one was held nine years back, or was it twelve. Anyhoos it effectively killed referenda as a public political weapon. How did this happen, when the response was a 99% "Yes" vote? The question (I have forgotten the exact wording - this is my recollection of the effect) was "I am in favour of law and order". The actual cause behind the referendum was the perceived number of crimes being committed by people released on parole and on bail.

How does this relate?

Simple, these so-called baseline scenarios are as meaningless as the referendum question. The baseline scenarios do not (should not) require thought to determine a truly moral position.

The only truly "victimless crime" in the whole lot is the guy with a rather strange idea on how to season a roast chicken. That one (from the first time I saw this so-called questionaire) has always boggled me. I hope he gets frostbite...

It is like the question that you have (kindly) responded to. As I think I hinted elsewhere, your reply agrees with my thoughts. The violence, the injury, does not change the true "baseline". The fact that it is included in the original scenario hints (to me at least) that it should be the difference between moral and immoral responses.

One can only wonder at the mentality of people who dream these things up.

Even more worrying are their motives...

5/24/2005 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger Dave Justus said...

Probligo;

You seem a bit paranoid here.

The baseline questions are to get a feel for the general rules of morality of the person who is taking the test.

Then, an number of unusual activities that are commonly considered taboo are describe, that will, or will not, fit into your previously defined rules of moral behavior.

The test is certainly focused on the principle of harm, as I indicate in one of my posts. I recommend you take the test, at the end their is some further explanations of this principle.

The important thing about the first question, is that if anyone viewed the girl's action as being moral, when she hit the boy and stole his swing, that person's morality is obviously skewed enough that the answers they give to the rest of the test are probably meaningless.

5/24/2005 03:41:00 PM  
Blogger The probligo said...

Paranoid? No, never.

5/24/2005 10:00:00 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home